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13th of November, 2018

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Rube

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Wisdom, Justice, and Moderation


When I was a kid, Georgia looked a lot different than it does today. In addition to speaking English, we also had a different flag. Here’s the old Georgia flag that I grew up under:


Gaflag


Now, the astute among you will discern a certain element to this flag that is a bit, shall we say, politically incorrect. This flag was introduced in 1956, and incorporated the Confederate Battle Flag, last seen in the Late Unpleasantness. This was done, legend has it, as a response to the growing Civil Rights Movement.


Fast-forward a bit to the Clinton presidency. Having our first black president, it became fashionable to declare the struggle for Civil Rights won, and for the Southern states to slowly divest themselves of Confederate symbolism. In 2001, drunk with the spirit of reconciliation and brotherhood, Georgia started flying a more neutral flag, reminiscent of its antebellum flag.


State Flag 2001 330Px


Attractive, if a bit hard to get tattooed on your biceps. As a compromise between the banjo-playing Beatty-rapers and the Freaknikers, the Confederate Flag lost its prominent place, but remained hidden in the footnotes. After 9/11, people began complaining that the Confederate Battle Flag, a symbol of violence and sedition against the U.S., had no place on an official American symbol. So, Georgia once again replaced their flag with a more neutral version.


State Flag 2003


Now, many people mistakenly call the Confederate Battle Flag the “Stars and Bars.” In fact, it’s hard to say the words without the same Southern drawl that Uncle Jesse used when he said it. But the Stars and Bars was actually the official National Flag of the Confederacy, and looked like this:


Flag 1861-1863


Now, let me get this straight: Instead of displaying the Battle Flag as a part of the State Flag, Georgia actually adopted the entire Confederate National Flag? You crackers aren’t even trying any more.


The question I’m struggling with is whether to forsake the Confederate Navy Jack, and remove it from my backpacks. I wear it as a person who’s proud to be from the Southern U.S., but I’ve been called out on it a couple of times. And when you look at it realistically, what exactly is it about that flag that I’m proud of in the first place?

Comments

Velociman

Smoke and mirrors, Rube. Got back to the True Flag. I still like the Little Richard, James Brown, Ray Charles, Otis Redding flag concept.

Kalafan

Hey, I'm sure the Georgia Council of Hysterical Bedwetters would be Aye-Okay with any one of those flags the second THIS one entered into the list of options: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wa...

Hell, LOTS more innocent people perished under the Hammer&Sickle than the Stars&Bars, yet almost no one bitches when the former appears on T-shirts.

Catfish

I like the flag with the stars and bars, the first one shown, Cat

Billy Bearden

Hey Y'all

Sorry for the late post, but now is a good time as any....

The 01-03 Ga Flag looked more like the Georgia Department of Transportation signs (blue background with gold seal in the middle)

The 9/11 date given was not the beginning of the loss of Confederate symbiology - it was just another day in a long list of attacks on Southern Heritage.

On Sept 11th, 2001, Atlanta city council changed the name of Confederate General Turner Ashby Street to SCLC Pres Joseph Lowry Blvd - thus violating Georgia Law.

No, the whole mess began in 1991 with the passage of a NAACP resolution calling for the removal of anything related to the Confederacy.

SINCE 1991

Ask the Ol Miss Rebels Mascot. Ask the R.E.Lee Council of Boy Scouts in Va. Ask the attempted attack on the Mississippi Flag. Ask the loss of the Georgia 1956 Flag. Ask the removal of the flag in Alabama. Ask the removal of the flag in SC. Ask the Boycott of the NAACP on SC. Ask the Boycott of the NCAA on SC. Ask the removal of the CS Memorial in Selma Al. Ask the removal of the CS Memorial in Pitt Co NC. Ask the attack of the CS Memorial in Memphis Tn Ask the attack on the Dorm on Vanderbuilt U. Ask the attack on the Univ of the South in Tenn. Ask the attack on the CS Marker in Blaine Wash. Ask the removal of the Virginia state song. Ask the removal of the Virginia Flag Salute. Ask the removal of CS Flags from POW Camp Lookout Ask the removal of CS Flags from graves in Missour Ask the removal of TShirt vendors from Ala. Malls Ask students banned from wearing CS Flag shirts. Ask the attack on the CS Monuments in Richmond Va. Ask the attack on the CS Obliesk in Charleston SC. Ask CS Memorial removal in Auguata Georgia. Ask the attack on CS Monuments in Chickamauga Ga. Ask the CS Flag ban imposed by NASCAR Ask the attempts by media to equate CSA to NAZIs.

THESE ARE JUST A FEW OF THE ITEMS TAKING PLACE SINCE 91. THE NAACP HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING BUT FOCUS ON CS FLAGS AND WITH THE LAP DOG MEDIA HAVE BEEN CONDUCTING A CONCERTED WAR EFFORT TO REMOVE BAN AND VILIFY ANYTHING SOUTHERN OLDER THAN 15 YEARS OLD.

Rube

Might want to get that Caps-Lock key checked out, Billy.

My point was: The symbols, national or otherwise, of a seditious, anti-American, and criminal enterprise such as the CSA have no place in the heart of anyone who's proud to be an American, and certainly no place on the official symbols of their most bitterly-hated enemy.

The CSA's reality is that of a defeated enemy of the USA. It's that of a country that passed laws that favored one race while enslaving and dehumanizing another, forbid the mixing of impure races with the master race. The Nazi analogy isn't completely without merit.

Showing that rebel flag just isn't cute anymore. We're trying to win a war; get your head out of your ass and drop the "South Will Rise Again!" bullshit. American first, Southern second; that war's already over, and the good guys won.

Billy Bearden

Rube,

Anti American? Huh? The biggest statue in Arlington National Cemetery is that of the Confederate Memorial.

What is Anti American about the Confederate States of America?

It was the Congress of the United States that bestowed Gold Medals on Confederate Veterans in 1958

Who is Anti American?

It was the United States Congress that passed laws granting equal rights to Confederate Veterans that were enjoyed by Union Veterans, who now are full US Veterans

Who is Anti American?

It was Pres Jimmy Carter that restored citizenship to Jefferson Davis, and Pres Ford who restored citizenship to Robert E Lee.

Who is Anti American?

It was legal to own slaves in all of America from 1614 until 1865 - 221 years. While the CSA existed only 4 years, slavery continued up north in Md, NJ, WV, De, Mo, & Ky during those 4 years and slavery was not ended until passage of the 3rd version of the 13th amendment in Dec 1865 - 8 months after lincoln's death.

Read the Constitution Rube. Read the Federalist Papers. This place called America was set up to have strong state Govts and power withthe people. Lincoln saw to it that we now live in fear of the big hand of a huge monolithic Empire of Amerika. States Rights and the battle for them still continues...

You may think that America is just Mom and apple pie, but then you delude yourself. I would prefer to live under a Teddy Roosevelt or DD Eisenhower who respected the Confederacy and it's symbols, than a Bush, Kerry, or Gore who don't.

Billy Bearden

On July 1st, 1956, Georgia Senate Bill 98 took effect. SB98 was signed into law on February 13th, 1956 by then-Governor Marvin Griffin, and it called for a new design to the Georgia State Flag.

What is now commonly referred to as the "56 Flag" was created by a suggestion from Atlanta attorney John Sammons Bell, then-chairman of the State Democratic Party, attorney for the Association of County Commissioners of Georgia (ACCG), and later Judge on Georgia Court of Appeals. His desire was to "forever perpetuate the memory of the Confederate soldier who fought and died for his state."

The flag it replaced was designed by Waynesboro State Senator and former Confederate Colonel Herman H.Perry in 1879, based on the 1st Flag of the Confederacy, AKA Stars and Bars. Similar to our current flag, it had 2 red stripes and 1 white stripe, and a field of blue down the left side.

By 1955 however, people like Representative Denmark Groover argued at the time that the old flag never had enough meaning for him when he was a boy and that the new flag would replace those meaningless stripes with something that has deep meaning in the hearts of all true Southerners"

Others like Senator Jefferson Davis of Cartersville also argued that the state should be entitled to adopt the new flag, because Georgia suffered more than any other state in the Civil War and endured a scorched earth policy from the mountains of Tennessee to the sea. SB98 was discussed and passed with little fanfare, and became law on July 1st, 1956.

It is a fact that under the 1879 Perry version flag, Jim Crow, lynching, segregation, and blatant discrimination were widely practiced and flourished in Georgia, as well as across America, but it is also fact that Georgia's greatest gains in Civil Rights came under the "56 Flag".

Under the 1956 Bell version flag, Georgia's schools were fully integrated, Black citizens were no longer lynched, they began enjoying full civil and equal rights in business, political, and social settings. Georgia gained 3 professional sports teams - Falcons, Braves, and Flames - hosted 2 Superbowls, held the 1996 Olympics, and set the pace for the New South.

Georgia based troops took the "56 Flag" with them onto the foreign battlefields of Viet Nam, Grenada, Beirut, Bosnia, and Desert Storm, and just as their Confederate ancestors before them, fought and died for their homes, families, and flag. Millions of Georgia citizens aged 5 to 50 were born under that flag.

In 1958, the United States Congress passed laws granting the same rights and recognition enjoyed by Union Veterans to men who served in the Confederate States Army and Navy. To this day Confederate Veterans are United States Veterans.

Unfortunantly, the 1956 Bell version flag had it's enemies. Attempts at claiming the "56 flag" was changed to fight integration a long 2 years after the Brown vs Board decision helped begin the BIG LIE that remains to this day. Although the historical facts are out there that plainly refutes this, truth means little for those with agendas.

Concerning those who claim that the flag was " designed as a last desperate grasp of defiance against integration." Judge John Sammons Bell said "Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth every bit of it is untrue." He further stated that "Anybody who says anything to the contrary is wrong or perpetuating a willful lie." Plus in the year 1956 several newspaper accounts of the proposed change in the GEORGIA FLAG were published. In none of the articles was there any hint that the flag change was for any reason other than that stated by the gentlemen who proposed the change.

Former Governor Ernest Vandiver said "I can assure you that there was no discussion of segregation or of the U.S. Supreme Court. All that was discussed was the coming centennial of the Civil War and this flag was meant to be a memorial to the bravery, fortitude and courage of the men who fought and died on the battlefield for the Confederacy. More Americans died in that war than any other war in the history of America, before or since."

In April 1992, the Atlanta Journal Constitution conducted a poll of 43,000 people, and their results were that 75% of citizens wished the "56 Flag" remain as is. Then on July 5th, 1992, the Atlanta Journal Constitution released the results of their own investigation into the flag change of 1956:"There is little written record of the 1956 Legislature and no audio record. News stories about the change were few. In none of our research did we find any record of a stated connection between changing the flag and opposition to desegregation rulings."

But the lies grew and multiplied. Another bit of untruth was that somehow the flag was "Bad for Business", and although the previously mentioned sports franchises and events came here under the "56 Flag", businesses like Home Depot were created here, Coca-Cola thrived and truly went global. Hartsfield Airport became the biggest in the world and 3 Interstates were built. Foreign companies built numerous plants here, and the economy was booming. The "56 Flag" was seen in movies like Smokey and the Bandit, and on TV shows like Matlock. Regardless, truth was ignored and facts tossed out the window.

In 1994, James Andrew Coleman filed a Federal Lawsuit against then Governor Zell Miller over the 56 Flag. Mr Coleman lost the suit and the flag remained, but once again Denmark Groover stood up to the plate, and in his deposition under oath he stated " I have no personal knowledge which would dispute the purely historical motives which were expressed then and since by the sponsors and others involved with the legislation when it was introduced in the Senate. While I cannot say that the Supreme Court's rulings regarding desegregation played absolutely no role in my decision to support the bill in the House, I can say that segregationist sentiment was not the overriding or even a significant factor in my vote concerning the new flag, or, based on personal observation and knowledge, in its ultimate adoption by the House....

It all finally came to a head in January 2001, when Ex-Governor Roy Barnes Blitzkrieged the legislature with threats, lies, and intimidation. Having ran on a campaign not to touch the flag, and just finished an interview on CNN in October 2000, stating the flag was not an issue, his flag change happened so fast not even most legislators knew what was happening. Those who voted with him received extra money for their campaigns and districts, those who refused were stripped of funding, or even in the case of Bowdon's Jack West, had his district removed thru redistricting for voting against the change.

Rube

Here's a tip, Billy: If you need more than 2 sentences to state your point, people will assume you're talking out of your ass. I've read those comments twice now and I still can't find your thesis statement. Here's mine:

"Anti-American" is inciting rebellion inside the USA, trying to overthrow the United States' government in its own territories, and organizing a military force to impose your political will upon American citizens with violence instead of through Constitutional methods.

Confederate soldiers do not belong in Arlington any more than slain mafiosi. Jefferson Davis does not belong on Stone Mountain any more than Benedict Arnold. The CSA battle flag does not belong on an American flag any more than the North Vietnamese flag.

I don't give a fuck which cross-burning retards gave citizenship to whom. You don't put the flag of a bitter enemy on your government symbols, end of story.

Open your own blog and talk about how Negroes should be out picking cotton or whatever it is you're trying to say here, and get your deluded bullshit out of my fucking comments.

Kalafan

Hey, Rubicon! Probably the most common irony I've ever noticed is that those claiming to be in opposition to "hate" sure as hell do a whole lot of hating themselves, as your above post illustrates fully. I also notice that the vast majority of "tolerant" prisses out there seem to have no problem whatsoever with outlawing the very existence of material like this: http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/sui...

Orwell must be laughing like crazy in whatever kind of grave he's in. We fight hate with hate, fight terrorism with terrorism, and defend our respective homelands by sending large portions of the military to foreign lands while neglecting the security of our own borders (over 2,000 German soldiers are now helping Israel clean up the mess it made in Lebanon, as if those reparations payments they've been saddled with all these years aren't enough). I suppose next it will be called "un-patriotic" to openly complain about the National ID cards that the mass of Boobus Americanus will be getting shoved up its ass in 2008.

Rube

Whoever said I was 'opposed to hate'? I <em>thrive</em> on hate. You've got me all wrong. I'm just not in lockstep about this flag issue.

Kalafan

Oh, well that changes everything!

Yeah, now that I look back it really doesn't make sense to use the symbols of an attempted insurrection against your authority, unless, you know, you're one of those nutcases who interprets the Constitution 100% in the original context, with rebellion against precieved tyranny from D.C. being the mark of a patriot instead of a traitor. I'll get back to this once the entire Southwest is renamed Nuevo Aztlan.

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